It appears that my architect clients are not reading the specifications we prepare, nor for that matter are engineers…for example, we prepared specifications for a structural engineer who either did not have time to prepare them or did not know how to, said structural engineer reviewed the specs and a day later came back with a comment that they were perfect - no changes necessary. Now if this was a structural engineer we had previously worked with, we could accept that, but it was not. And to make it even more interesting we inserted some language in the specifications in some obvious locations that were blatantly inappropriate and still the engineer approved them. Of course we will remove that language before we issue the specs, but i wonder if anyone else is having this problem. We include in our agreements strong wording regarding the architect’s responsibility to review the specs before they are issued, but still we are receiving so few comments these days that i wonder what’s going on - i know we prepare good specs - but perfect specs, i don’t think so…is anyone else having this problem or have any suggestions on how to deal with it - it scares me when a client answers my inquiry - oh we trust that you have prepared the specs correctly or we don’t have time to review the specs now, maybe later…of course later never comes.
Jerome, I started to read this post, but I got busy and it’s such a long post that I never finished it. What was your question?
Jerome, it may be that you are being shamelessly [but unwittingly] positioned for a court visit. If your specs goes askew on the project and your client is sued, guess whose going to court too? It’s the fact that they have so little regard and understanding of specs, that they give little credence to them-- their problem!
But you are in the nasty position that their negligence can become your need to be demurred out of the case, at your expense, for doing the right thing [perhaps]
I’d advise doing things straight up and not inserting questionable text-- that doesn’t help your case should your client “miss” them and the legals gets look at it.
In my simple opinion, this is exactly an area in need of massive, strong, aggressive and very definitive effort to establish the correct and proper value and status for specs-- doesn’t seem to be on any one’s agenda, and the clients flatly don’t understand-- or don’t give a damn [your choice]. AND also makes one huge challenge to end much of this stuff by getting specs instruction early in professional careers-- say in the schools!!!
Nathan
I had thought about posting this anonymously, but I figured its Friday and I haven’t been abused enough this week, so what the hey.
Ralph
Do you really think I would leave that language in a spec section? Actually in this case the language placed responsibility in the hands of the Structural PE that he really doesn’t need or wants - but maybe Structural Engineers think they are architects these days?..no offense to my Structural Engineer colleagues.
Ralph
Interestingly enough we prepared specs on a project years ago that eventually landed in the courts and the attorneys for both sides advised us that if the Contractor and the Architect had actually read the specs there would have never been a lawsuit. Apparently these lawyers figured out by reviewing RFI’s and RFI responses that none of the professionals on the project ever cracked the spec book open - we have yet to be implicated in any part of the lawsuit - fingers are kept crossed though.
I know its not just me…I had a call this morning from a respected manuf rep who asked me what the he__ was going on with architects these days, apparently he had a week of questions from architects that amazed him…and this guy has been in the business for 40 years, not many things amaze him anymore.
Melissa, u r right, I must need a vacation…
U know I enjoy talking to myself - its better than a therapist…well maybe not.
Well, you can hope you will only deal with those insightful attorneys, in future situations, but didn’t it cost you time and money for your involvement [correct as it was] in that case? There’s the secret little trap-- known as “collateral damage”!
Oh, knew well you would not leave spiffy quirky text in the specs, but just so conservative as to not want to risk missing it myself. But then you’re so much better than I am!!!
Nathan, I had thought about posting this anonymously, but I figured its Friday and I haven’t been abused enough this week, so what the hey.
LOL, no worries. I was more or less pulling a Jonathan Swift on you.
I once thought about putting a riddle in the specs, scattered throughout, with a bottle of scotch at the end.
I still thinks it’s a good idea
But I’ve never had the legal guts to do it.
Maybe I’ll use it the next time I teach the CDT or a documents class.
Marc
PS once upon a time we put a drawing of donald ducks ass end in a brick wall and labeled it “thru wall duck”
The boss stamped the drawings and was REALLY tee-ed off later when he saw the “architectural detail” that he had stamped.
Ah youth!
M
sorry your dealing with all this Jerome. My priorities changed again last night. Came too close for comfort last night in LR, Arkansas. We almost got hit by a tornado last night. Spent all night in downstairs pantry from 8 pm - 2am riding out the storms. Luckly we only had down trees here but a police officer about 2 miles from our house caught the tornado on his dash cam. It made national tv this morning. still we are alright! I hope you get your stuff worked out. Also, my archs and engrs do not read either. I get really impressed with the ones that do read my specs, I usually scream with excitement in the meetings, not joking and then praise them for their work. That makes them feel good! hee hee.
I am an in-house writer and I am seeing the same attitude about specs from some of the new hires.
I recently finished a draft spec for a major project and asked the PA to have someone look it over. He took it home overnight and started marking the spec for revisions. The last marks are next to a watermark that was probably created by a puddle of drool where the architect fell into the arms of Hesperus, only about fifty pages into the spec. When he returned the binder to me, I asked if the rest of the pages were OK and he answered that we don’t have time now, so we will just fix whatever needs to be changed in an addendum.
He will soon find out that this 50,000-man corporate behemoth has internal quality assurance mechanisms that will stop that from happening. The department head will not release documents until the proper reviews are done, both in redline markup and yellow highlighter back-check, and all the official paperwork signed and submitted.
Obliviously, you don’t work for a mega-firm with a 500-page QA/QC policy manual; and being a consultant outside the design firm drastically reduces your influence over such matters. If the proper person signs off on your work, then you must assume they are satisfied with your effort, even if you know it falls short. Begging for a more strenuous critical review seems a bit sadomasochistic.
Perhaps you can charge by the hour to change what should have been done as part of your original effort. I just hope they don’t hold you responsible for the inevitable deficiencies they chose to overlook. In any case, I am willing to bet your unfiltered specs are far better than what most area firms put out.
Wow! We all knew that Contractors didn’t read the specs [what’s the difference between a plan room and a court room? they read specs in a court room], but the architects and engineers? Can you hold off release until they sign a document stating they have read them? Oops - that’s what the Contractors do, isn’t it.
Ralph, lets not forget who the celebrated and renown author is…it ain’t me jack…and no I have not yet finished reading your last book..if i make it to LV in June i promise to take it on the plane to read…in between naps.
I am seeing this problem as lack of mentoring once again. In my humble opinion, firms here in my state do not get the quality mentoring from a firm senior architect that they should because said firm is too busy and life is too demanding enough to spend on helping us “younger” ones read the fine print.
Melissa, thank god you are ok, we need more specwriters, can’t lose anymore these days…only been through one tornado and that only lasted 10 minutes…hurricanes are no fun, but I’ll take a hurricane over a tornado any day…
Richard - just curious who the heck do you work for?
URS