I never list number of pages in the TOC. There is no reasonable justification for this at all. I have been writing specs for 10 years, and am in my mid 40s.
I would be interested in knowing if there is any correlation between those that do include numbers of pages, those that do not, experience and age…
We have one county GSA client we do a lot of work with that has made a science of redundant lists:
Spec Page Count on the TOC
Drawing List in DIV ONE
a Spreadsheet that follows “Submittal Procedures” that lists every submittal included in all the individual Sections.
The Above list also includes Project Record Documents, Maintenance Docs etc. The spreadsheet for a recent 40,000SF Medical Office Building ran to 70 tight Excel pages.
The only saving grace - the county does their own DIV ONE, you just sit back and wonder.
PS - You should see their DIV “ZERO”, a 495 page PDF file guaranteed to freeze your laptop!
If there’s one thing I can’t stand, it’s stuff that’s redundant, superfluous and unnecessary…
I used to include number of pages and created the last TOC. With the power of generating Table of Contents with MasterWorks I stopped but I am being lazy. No other real good reason than I tired of recreating the TOC as the spec (as work on progress till the very last minute) developed. Before I started using the PDF format, I noticed that some printers drivers messed with my pagination and forced new pages, making my TOC uncoordinated. Currently, I manually check each section for weird page breaks, widows, orphans, and insert a blank page after each odd number page for duplex printing. Talk about busy work but a little tedium has saved me from embarassment and a redundant addendum.
Number/name of drawings in table in spec is a moving target. Never do it.
I do use MasterWorks to prepare reports for the usual suspects found in Division 01. No one knows how easy this is, and I look like a genius.
There is always a reason for repetitive redundancy…
The attorneys doing construction agreements seem to want to include a list of Drawings and a list of sections, sometimes with the number of pages in each section. It is beyond me why they can’t simply say in the agreement that the list of drawings and specification sections can be found at … However, they request, we are difficult and then comply.
Of course there is always redundant repetition …
page count: never because I too, think it is busy work and is constantly changing. its one more manual coordination thing that someone has to track. if there is a potential problem, its easy enough to change the footer to the “Page 1 of 6” variety and that provides enough check for a reader to figure out if the set is complete or not.
I do use an “END OF SECTION” notation at the end of the section which I think provides enough of a marker for the reader.
Earlier in this thread, David Axt wrote, “I also break with CSI PageFormat and put “Page 8 of 14” at the bottom of my pages.”
Nothing wrong with that, but there is a certain risk: Included in a Project Manual we recently issued were government-furnished documents having last pages identified as “Page 8 of 9”, “Page 15 of 14”, and “Page 109 of 101”. (In two of the three cases, but not the last, the page included “End of Section”.)
We do not include the page count in the TOC.
Instead, we set up two columns on the right hand side of every TOC page. The first column is labeled “Original Issue” for the date of the spec section that is included in the Contract Documents. The second column is labeled “Latest Revision,” for subsequent issues. It sort of serves a log, to keep track of spec sections that are revised or reissued during the course of Bidding and Construction.
I have found this to be CONSIDERABLY more useful than a page count. I haven’t used a page count in about 14 years and, quite frankly, I don’t miss it one bit, and have never had a problem (from clients, lawyers, contractors, etc.) with it not being there.
I like to put a page count on every section and on the Table of Contents for each section so that I can always know if a page is missing. Then, I like to put a paragraph count on every page of every section and on the Table of Contents for each section so that I can always know if a paragraph is missing. Then, I like to put a line count on every paragraph of every page of every section and on the Table of Contents for each section so that I can always know if a line is missing. Then, I like to put a word count on every line of every paragraph of every page of every section and on the Table of Contents for each section so that I can always know if a word is missing. Then, I like to put a letter count on every word of every line of every paragraph of every page of every section and on the Table of Contents for each section so that I can always know if a letter is missing. Then, I like to finish up by putting a very large overtime count on my time card - it help pay for the aspirin.
Anon,
Do you then list them like this?
Letter Count:
A: 45,996
B: 12,456
C: 2,093
…
Z: Not Used
Page count: never. Page x of y: always. End of section: always.
With all the technical shortfalls in design practices in this country, our time and attention is too valuable to engage in busywork out of habit. Specifiers need to stop acting like clerical help and hire some.
We do not typically list the number of pages in the TOC with a few exceptions. For Geotech Reports and other special inserts or reference documents that may have multiple sections within a given document and/or non-consecutive page numbering, we include the number of pages as a means for the viewer to verify that they have the entire document.
As stated by others, we do not see the need to list page counts for spec sections where the pages are numbered consequtively and “End of Section” appears at the end. The viewer should be able to plainly identify if they are missing a page. Would be time consuming on our part to coordinate this and a great chance of error if miscellaneous items are being added and coordinated in the “eleventh hour”.
David,
I endorse your practice of issue dates. I have used a similar format for the drawing index. It is a good audit trail.
Page numbers are omitted.
Wayne
Page Count: Never
Page x of y: Never
Page x: Always
End of Section xx xx xx: Always
Reason: I’m so compulsive that when I have an odd number of pages in a Section, I run a macro that adds a blank page, so there is always an even number of pages and the PM prints correctly. If I then run Masterworks or some other page number automation, it counts the blank page and provides incorrect information. And, no, I will not add “This page left blank intentionally” to the blank pages.
Same reason for “Page x of y” The y is incorrect when I add the blank page.
Don: Does the blank page have the header and footer on it? Is it dynamic, so that if the section is edited and becomes one page longer the blank page is deleted?
Page count in Contents: Never
Page x of y: Not for spec sections, but sometimes for documents that do not have an “end of” identifier
Page x: In the footer, formatted zz zzzz-x
End of Section zz zzzz: Never (since the section number is in the footer)
End of Section: Always
Not Used: Not used
Drawing Index in Project Manual: Usually, due to the convenience of attaching the document to AIA A101. This document and the list on the drawing cover sheet can be linked to the same file so they remain in sync.
Blank pages: Invest in a printer/copier with automatic duplexing.
The macro creates a new section in the document, so there is no header and footer, but it is not dynamic. It needs to be removed.
Ever done work for government agencies that require a page x of y in the header, starting with the first page of the table of contents and ending with the last page of the last section? While individual Word documents can be merged into a single consolidated file to accomplish this automatically, the x of y page numbering in the header interferes with the individual section page x numbering in the footer.
Dave,
Have you tried MasterWorks macros for this? It comes with MasterSpec… You create what is called a Project Document - you may stipulate that the page numbering does not begin anew for each section… which I have only dealt with in the footer. I wonder if the macro would mess at all with page info in the header… You could try it.
I haven’t indicated number of pages per section in the Table of Contents since the mid 90’s (when I started writing specs - so I never did in the first place).
I count myself among those who think it is unecessary.
The only time I ever did anything additional to the TOC was when we were doing some “fast-track” projects and were keeping track of multiple issues of sections by putting the issue date after the section.