Ken, John, thanks for the catch. Obviously a typo on my part, but the interesting thing I notice is for everything EXCEPT div 10, 11, 12, and 13 can one properly identify if it’s '95 or '04, either by the number, or by a changed division name (and in some cases, both).
“a (Unregistered Guest)” sure learned how this group digresses ![]()
“casual use of furnish, install, supply, provide, and similar words.” --Many of the clients I have worked with in Transportation do not define these words & typically have their own “front end” including General Conditions. Many clients also require the use of “Specifications” for “Project Manual.” At the end of the day one does what the client wants.
Basically, I agree with what Mark said…
–I have always preferred one CIP section (with multiple mix designs, if necessary). Of course paving is different (and would NOT include other site elements - think of concrete paving design similar to asphalt design & you get the picture). Site civil engineers tend to be indifferent to specifying concrete, preferring to allow the SE’s decisions prevail. It is not that difficult to reference other sections.
–I have come to strictly control the issue of coordination of concrete and all sections, with a spreadsheet defining primary and secondary authorship of each section. This way consultants cannot spring “their own” concrete section on the lead specifier
I insist on everyone coordinating with other disciplines.
– I recently had the need to write a specific Concrete Finishing section for integrally colored concrete. I asked the SE to review & comment and he was glad to do so. Nor have I ever had a geotech consultant refuse to review the Earthwork section. …just don’t understand the failure of architects to perform this simple step. Why not get help wherever one can?
BTW, I am consulting while picking up some classes… if anyone needs my help on the transportation/engineering side, be glad to do so.
Difficulties with having one CIP Section
Consultants do not coordinate. The architect needs to motivate consultants.
A consultant takes the position he does not need a specification section since all the information is in his General Notes on the Drawings
One or more consultants sees their concrete specification section as a black box. If it is a black box you cannot negotiate.
Divergent specification approaches. For example some specify performance criteria while others specify prescriptive properties of the mix. The concrete suppliers are strongly supporting specification of performance criteria.
Sometimes it takes more time to negotiate a mutually agreeable specification section than it is worth. Suggest letting the consultant with the most sophisticated master take the lead.
Probably a bigger issue than one CIP section is coordination of the mix designs so that, where possible, the contractor can use the same mix design for building concrete and site concrete. This is especially a concern if exposed building concrete is placed adjacent to site concrete that is visible and where it is desirable that they look the same.
Where color and texture are important do so by requiring mock-ups. Resist the urge to specify specific materials, mix proportions, and detailed installation and finishing procedures. Consider providing color chips and referring to industry publications that define the various textures.
It depends in part on the relative amounts of each. In the scenario I was postulating, the “other” concrete items were typically equipment pads or similar small stuff, not entire paved parking lots (concrete paving is rare in New England, not having been used much since the original interstates were built). The largest items would have been various concrete site walls.
Mark’s comments, as usual, are spot-on.
Oh yes, Mark’s comments are. Some things there I hadn’t thought of. Very interesting …Thanks!
Mock ups were part of that spec.
It has occurred to me that we sometimes have different points of view as my experience is from horizontal construction whereas most of the participants of this forum are more conversant with vertical construction.
Best to all, Karen