Is Forest Green Water Reducible Metal Primer by Delta Industrial Systems equal or better than a red oxide primer, they both meet SSPC Paint 15.
If it’s green it must be better.
We’d understand you better, Sheldon, if you’d take your tongue out of your cheek (we need a sarcasm font)
It is difficult to enunciate with one’s tongue in one’s cheek.
I don’t know if there is a sarcasm font, but there is a sarcasm mark (sarcmark). According to this article, it already existed; you just have to figure out how to insert it.
I like this one.
AHEM
A LITTLE HELP HERE GUYS
CAN WE GET BACK TO THE ISSUE AND DISCUSS SARCASM ON ANOTHER THREAD…
I’VE NOT HAD EXPERIENCE USING GREEN PRIMERS, PERHAPS SOMEONE ELSE HAS?
Gimme a break; it’s been a long week. 
How about a little help with your product? I tried Google, Bing, Yahoo, blekko, didn’t find it. Do you have a link?
From SSPC:
"This specification covers a one coat shop primer for open web and long span steel joist and joist girders and for cold formed steel framing. This coating is intended to provide temporary protection to the steel joist during delivery, storage on site, and erection in an atmosphere comparable with SSPC Environmental Zone 1, normally dry. This coating is intended to be used as a holding primer that may or may not be removed before or after erection or assembly in the field.
“The specification does not address the formulation of the coating but covers the physical and performance characteristics of the coating.”
This type of paint isn’t based on rocket science. If you’re specifying based on SSPC Paint 15, it’s probably no better or worse. All it has to do is keep the metal from rusting for a short time.
A related 4specs discussion:http://discus.4specs.com/discus/messages/3077/2185.html?1141933453
What time is it there, Sheldon? Get some sleep!
Sorry, I can’t respond off subject. 
It’s never been done before.
Jerome, all I can find for Delta Industrial Systems Products is http://www.deltaindustrialsystems.com/products.php which has nothing to do with primers or even anything green that I can tell.
As to water reducible metal primers and red oxide primers, you should be aware that they are solely for the purpose of protecting steel, such as joists, from flash rust. Basically they’re designed to get the steel to job site. They are the lowest common denominator. If you’re looking to put a finish coat on the steel, use something better.
Ken,
I typically spec primers by Tnemec such as Series 394 / PerimePrime which is Grayish-Green. I spec other primers from Tnemec also in greyish-green color. Depends in the VOC content for exterior versus interior locations, used as a shop primer or a field tuouch-up primer.
http://www.tnemec.com/product/view/Series-394-PerimePrime
Carboline has comparables.
Wayne
I agree Wayne, but sometimes the project doesn’t need anything more than a cheap primer to protect the steel long enough to get delivered, erected, and enclosed. PerimePrime can be overkill in many instances. A standard DTM acrylic shop primer can provide fast drying and superior protection to the SSPC 15 paints, providing a good surface to receive subsequent coats of latex paint (again, depends on the use and needs). If the steel will be subjected to extended exposure to severe weather even after installation, PerimePrime is certainly the way to go especially if you’ve got HPC or fireproofing installed afterwards.
Jerome, one other consideration is that if this is a Florida project and you have any concerns about corrosion, SSPC 15 may not be sufficient for your needs. It’s cheap, but I wouldn’t use it for a high-rise on the coast.
Another concern is if you’ve got fireproofing sprayed on your steel. As you already know, the primer has to have been tested to prove compatibilty with whatever fireproofing is being used.
Good point about the location, Ken. I love visiting the oceans, but sometimes it’s nice to be thousands of miles from salt water.
Our Grace rep recommends not using primer at all where fireproofing is to be applied.
It’s easy to specify a high-performance primer, but it is not uncommon to find that the fabricator used their standard who-knows-what’s-in-it primer. That led to removing the primer and re-priming in the field, which costs just a bit more than doing it right the first time, and, of course a lot of weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Hey Sheldon, that sarcasm mark you like is called a fermata, in Music notation it extends the value of a note. kinda like this discussion.
Duh! I knew I had seen it before, but all I could see was a raised eyebrow.
As a practical matter, unless you are working on a very large project you are probably going to get WSWH ("Whatever S**t We Have) metal primer. As noted above, if it complies with SSPC requirements, it will do the job to protect the steel until erection. The “green” aspect may or may not be important; there are certainly a number of water-based primers that are in general use (see MPI).
What does become important is how the primer functions as a foundation for further coatings. If this is all the steel gets, then we don’t have to go any further. If the primer is going to get coated with something else; e.g., typical paint topcoats, high performance coatings (especially in coastal or other corrosive environments), or spray-applied fire proofing, then you do really need to look at it further. You may have to take it off to apply a more appropriate primer, or it may serve as a foundation for a primer to the top coating.
Unless you have some very unusual conditions you do not need a primer on structural steel unless you will subsequently be applying other coatings. The amount of rusting that will occur during the normal construction duration will not create problems.
In these situations the green thing to do is to do nothing.
I most often spec primer on joists and on perimeter steel.
Sheldon, ask your Grace rep how often they see rusted steel properly prepared to receive fireproofing. My guess is never. I’ve heard some folks say that the fireproofing keys in better to rusted steel but somehow that sounds flaky (get it?) to me.
I agree with Ken. I’ve heard that too. The steel has to at least be cleaned prior to application of the fireproofing.
I have specified primers under fireproofing. They should be approved by the fireproofing manufactuer. Carboline makes it easy since they manufacture both the primer and the fireproofing.
As for shop-priming of steel, I don’t necessarily agree with Mark. I generally specify a zinc-rich primer on all steel. This affords better protection of the steel until it is enclosed, or if exposed, finish painted.
Some fabricators use “WSWH” to deter “flash rust”, but it generally doesn’t perform very well, if at all.
I worked on a project some years back in NYC. The steel arrived at the site already rusted. Turns out the fabricator’s shop was located in the area of the Brooklyn docks! That’s when I started specifying the zinc-rich primers. While you may not have to prime the structural steel, as Mark says, if it continues to rust on the job, it can cause staining of adjacent materials until it is enclosed. I’m not talking about the HSLA/Corten steel either. So I choose not to take any chances. In another situation, the Contractor didn’t prime any of the steel, even though it was specified. Some of the interior steel was designated AESS (Architecturally Exposed Structural Steel). Because the steel did not exhibit the color of the specified primer, we were able to prove it was never primed and they had to go back and clean & prime it in the field. It ended up costing the Contractor more than if he had just done it right in the first place.
Keeping the fireproofing on the steel is increasingly more important because of building code changes resulting from the WTC collapse. Grace did a presentation for our CSI chapter recently on this very issue - changes to adhesion, density, and inspection requirements. In a fireproofed steel building, the right steel prep and primer needs serious consideration.
By the way, Ken, light rust on reinforcing steel is okay for concrete adhesion - maybe people incorrectly interpolate that to being okay for fireproofing on steel?
After seeing how easy it is to knock fireproofing off rusted steel, I am a devout believer in surface prep.
Some ironworkers prefer to prime everything since it can keep there surface prep costs down in the field. So many primers have been tested with so many fireproofing products that I’m surprised when a fabricator uses a product that isn’t compliant. What get me are fireproofing Installers that don’t care what the surface is like that they spray. All they have to do is tell the GC that the steel isn’t ready to receive their application; I’d think they’d want to get the extra $$$. Again, if no one is out there to see if it’s compliant, I guess they don’t care. I just don’t understand how some applications pass testing and inspections.