I am seeking opinions as to favored methods for specifying manufacturer names for commodity products. Not one-off products.
Option 1: Hilti, Inc., (Tulsa, Oklahoma; 800-879-8000; ; www.us.hilti.com)
Option 2: Hilti, Inc., (Tulsa, Oklahoma; 800-879-8000; www.us.hilti.com)
Option 3 (my favorite): Hilti, Inc., (www.us.hilti.com)
Is it too much to require the bidders to go to the manufacturers website to source suppliers/reps, etc per zip code or city/ state?
Just wondering?
Thanks,
Wayne
I agree with you; #3 is the cleanest. (Isn’t that one of the CSI "C"s - Clear, Concise, Complete, Correct, and Clean?)
The only time I list a contact / source name is when a Designer requests it because a particular individual has helped with a selection / product and understands the requirements and the project. Then it’s helpful to the bidders / contractors.
Wow, you guys are a lot nicer than I am. I just list the product and manufacturer and pretend that someone that is supposed to be knowledgeable in the work they’re doing can find them.
Otherwise I agree with Lynn. I follow the same rule of thumb (and yes, when I am having a weak moment I occasionally include websites in the manufacturer listings).
I’m with Ken, I occasionally add web addresses, but I’m not going to do all that for them. If it’s a specialty item that they need to contact a specific rep for, then I will give their name and contact info.
It’s hard enough to keep up with company name changes, much less phone numbers and addresses.
SpecLink provides the website almost all the time (if not all the time) and for additional manufacturers, since I’m probably on the website to get information, it’s a simple thing to copy / paste that address. Since it’s where I get most of my initial information, I figure I can do the bidders / contractors a bit of a service.
Keeping track of product rep job hoping is an exercise in futility. Mike from Mutual Materials becomes Mike with G-P. After awhile I lose track of Mike. Then Mike pops up with an new employer and product.
As Curt says, “It is hard enough . . . .”
I agree with Lynn 2nd comment. This has become good manners when the project is across the country but my sources are local.
While I appreciate it when a spec has my company, my website, and occasionally even my name, phone, and email, I understand the direction of this conversation. I think the spec should list the correct company name and if possible the website. All other information is nice but not necessary and prone to change.
I don’t think product reps are any more prone to moving from firm to firm than architects and spec writers are but people do move. I’ve been in the fenestration industry for 35 years and worked for 3 companies, the current one is 10+ years, but at some point I’ll be gone and a new rep will replace me. Your spec should list the company and in an effort to be clear, concise, complete, and correct, perhaps the website.
As Wayne stated at 2:31, “when the project is across the country” it becomes an issue. I almost never have a project in Wisconsin, much less in Madison. So the rep I work with probably does not cover the territory where the project is located. (Hint to companies: my zip code to reach the correct rep is a ridiculous requirement).
Manufacturers can have similar names. As I recall, there are two “Henry” companies, and several “Nortons”. Another scenario is the company that changes name. A contractor may recognize “LCN” but not “Aligion”. Using a website or other identifier helps to reduce confusion.
I generally include phone number & web address. Part of the specifier’s charge, as I see it, is to facilitate the bidding & procurement process. I generally have both pieces of info or can get them easily. If necessary to track them down, my little investment of time presumably provides value to everyone scrambling to to bid or buy out the job.
On more than a few occasions, I have gone to a manufacturer’s website to find the “legal name” of the company only to find that there is none listed. They may have a picture of their manufacturing plant, details out the wahzoo, but nowhere does it list the name of their company. This is complicated when they are pushing a brand really hard and everyone wants Abc product but no one can tell you who makes it.
Peter, that’s when I look at the bottom to see who has the copyright on the webpage. That’s a good clue.
Frequently, when that happens, I’ll click on “Contact Us” and the name usually appears. But, yes, many manufacturers are so enamored of “the INTERNET” that they fail to provide normal information. And that can be a problem when the manufacturer changes names, too. There’s one particular manufacturer of laboratory equipment and casework that changed its name about 4 or 5 times in the past few years. Made it very difficult to specify - “What’s the name they’re using this month?”
And if not there, download or review some pdf or online brochures and check the name in front of the copyright there as well. Usually at the bottom of the page, or on the last page - though some still don’t list their name, or list some shorthand variant of their name.
Sometimes you can also google the name and get a response that shows the company name, sometimes a wikipedia search will turn up things.
But there is a limit to what I can endure to where I just put in what seems apparent. After all, if they don’t care who they are …!
I appreciate the fact that Speclink includes websites and it is nice to have, but some companies are so large that their website is nearly worthless. A Google search is probably faster. Besides, how often are products purchased from a manufacture unless the contractor has an ongoing relationship with them (think roofing and waterproofing). Contractors normally call up their typical vendors to get one of the products listed in the spec.
I second Peter’s comment. I have been frustrated many times by a manufacturer’s refusal to identify its actual company name. And also its address. Sometimes they just aren’t on the website. And yes, I have sometimes searched extensively, even for a copyright notice. It’s perhaps even more frustrating than cryptic, non-descriptive or even misleading trade names. I want to know: “What IS this, really?” “What company makes it?” “Where is it based?” (and sometimes, “Is this part of another company?”)
Branding hubris…
Websites that do not post manufacturer information are usually (but not always) products that are sold through retail or distributors. The manufacturer may not want to be bothered by calls from pesky customers or specifiers.
It depends. If it is a common product line that trades can be expected to be aware of just provide manufacture name and the specific product. If we are talking about a manufacture that the likely subcontractor cannot be expected to be aware of then it is appropriate to provide some additional information.
If you as the designer do not know how to contact the manufacturer or his representative then I would reconsider the decision to specify the product.
In writing specifications the intent is to promote the interests of our client not to do the bidders/contractors a bit of a service.
Proper company name, city, and state; no phone number, no URL. If you’re bidding a section, you should recognize the companies; if not, you should be able to find them online. If not, do I want you working on my project?
Exception: When we get the occasional oddball thing I’ll add more contact information - especially if it took me a couple of hours to track it down!
URLs and phone numbers do change, so it’s more to keep track of. Not so much with the big companies, but the bidders probably don’t need help with them anyway.
Our interiors group loves to put in the name of the rep they’re working with. Good or bad? If you’re relying on a specific rep to know exactly what you want, instead of specifying it, you’re putting someone in a bad spot. Also, in steering bidders toward a specific source, you could be missing a better price, even from another rep with the same company.
Speaking of interior finishes (where products may be sole sourced to a manufacturer due to design, pattern etc.), the contact you use for your information could affect manufacturer’s pricing to various subs. In flooring, for example, if you rely on a rep from distributor or installation company for samples, etc., they can register the job with the manufacturer to get more favorable pricing than their competitors, which may virtually guarantee they get the job. In fact, that’s the purpose–manufacturers want to favor whoever is bringing them customers, and I can understand that. Dealing directly with the manufacturer’s own reps only (not with local flooring companies) may help avoid that, and promote a more level playing field among installers/subs, but I have been told that even then, a manufacturer’s rep may well have ways to favor one sub-bidder over another. So in some ways, even what we thought was left of “competitive bidding” (among subs, for installed products) may be an illusion…