I get the occasional request to discount my specification writing fee because the new project will be just like the previous project or that they will share many of the same sections. How do you politely handle this situation?
Ask them to give you those instructions in writing and then have them send you the Record Specifications in Word for the previous project. Change the headers and footers and send it back to them.
Take the client to a restaurant. When you order, ask for a discount because, after all, the entre is just like the previous meal you had there and shares many of the same ingredients.
I recently fell for it. The architect asked for a discount and assured me that the school project was just like the previous school project that we did for that same school district. Well surprise surprise, it was not. Now I am going after additional services.
Next time when told the project will be just like the previous project I will tell them that my fee will be just like the previous project.
Depends on the client and the relationship with the client and how bad you want the project. I discount it sometimes, if it is withing 6 months of the previous project and include the verbiage, “Discounted fee is based on the expectation scope will be substantially similar to Project X. If scope differs, as determined by XX Company, additional services will be invoiced at hourly rate”.
My approach is similar to Robins. Your mileage may vary of course!
This situation highlights how important it is to “fence the project”; i.e., establish a “well-defined” scope of work which can be used to develop a strategy for requesting additional fees should the need arise. In developing a preliminary section count, I understand that some sections I check off will not be used, but others will take their place. I am rarely off by more than 5 percent. When the section count begins to be significantly more than 10-15 percent above what I estimate, I consider a request for additional services.
I do like Robin’s suggestion. A “fence” for this scope might include an estimate of the number of sections that are simply copies (change headers and footers) and an estimate of the number of sections that will be “new.” You might even try to estimate the sections that you will generate by editing a master and the sections that you will have to cobble together from other sources.
We recently developed specifications with a regular client for a particular hotel brand in College Station, suburban Houston, and Galveston. The client, of course, wanted a “discount.”
Despite being based on the same prototype, these projects has some differences. The one in surbaban Houston was very similar to the prototype with the typical site adaptations. The exterior for the one in College Station had to be modified because of architectural guidelines requiring a certain amount of masonry cladding. The one in Galveston was right on the beach and required significant modifications to exterior systems to withstand wind loads and debris-impact-resistance. As I told my assistant, they are all the same, but they are all different.
A number of years ago, when I was “captured” with a local architectural firm, we were developing a “lifestyle center.” I developed specifications for the first two buildings, and when starting on the third fell for the “it’s just the same.” Well, this particular building had an interior service corridor with fire-rated partitions and doors (the previous ones had been typical strip center buildings-cold, dark, shells- without interior corridors). I relied on the project team for the project scope and didn’t look at the Drawings myself. We did not catch the problem until the Contracting was pricing the Work. Big OOPS.
Lesson learned? Focus on what is different, not what is the same. It may be minor enough not to make a difference, but the differences between what is required for a building right on the Gulf Coast and a project 100 miles inland results in significantly more work. A single-story commercial shell (walls with doors and roof) will be very different from a two-story commercial shell with interior finishes, elevators, stairs, and restrooms.
Peter’s same but different recollection reminds me of something I learned while still in school at Southern Illinois University, a university with two campuses. The campus architect for one of the campuses mentored me in an independent study. He described how, to “save money”, the State’s Capital Development Board hired an architect and told the firm to use the same building design on each campus. Well, you know what happened…
– To fit the context and economic realities of the several campuses, one used unit masonry and the other precast.
– While only a few hundred miles apart, they were in different climates zones and seismic zones.
– Pedestrian and vehicular circulation patterns required one floor plan to be mirror image of the other.
– One used steel frame, the other concrete because of available suppliers and local costs.
– One had a central heating/cooling plant, the other required it’s own equipment.
– They used different versions of the codes. AHJ in the two locales had different interpretations.
– One had an auditorium, the other didn’t.
– In the middle of design development, one of the two changed from a classroom focus to a research lab focus, with considerably different services required.
You get the idea.
Peter said I should focus on what is different in the project and not what is the same. Next time I will ask the architect the following:
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What percentage of the previous drawings will be reused for the new project?
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Will the details be the same?
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Will the finishes be the same? If not what is different?
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Will the new project be under the same code requirements as the previous project?
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Will the same team members be involved, both internally and outside consultants?
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Will the same owner’s project manager/representative and contractor (if GCCM) be the same?
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What new materials or design features will be in this new project that will distinguish it from the old project?
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Will the new building have a similiar configuration or will there be additional rooms (for example adding a gymnasium)?
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Are there any “Lessons Learned” from the previous project that will be applied to this new project?
I might turn some questions around:
What details will be different?
What finishes/materials will be different?
Asking that way turns the mindset to the new building.
If new project is “just like” the previous project, then why isn’t A/E just paying their admin to overlay new project headers on previous project PDF pages? Oh…and not pay you anything at all?
Guest: I am sure a lot of architects do that. At least this one is trying to do the ethical thing.
David,
I think the “lessons learned” part is especially important. I ask for the approved submittals before starting another project, which is supposed to be “just like the last one”.
Robin - When is initially (and flippantly) presenting scope of work as “same as previous,” when in reality, differences exist…i.e., when does same=different?
I’d say leave me out of it; I have better things to do than extend (nearly) same level of effort for half (or less) of the fee…although I recently did so (for 1/3 of proposal) for “good” A/E client, when their public entity client scrutinized by proposal breakdown (i.e., cherry-picked) to reduce.
I am also trying to think of good strategies for additional services when the scope or materials of the new project changes.
I believe the whole problem lies with architects believing that specifications are just (and I hate the word) “boilerplate.” They do not realize that specifications are custom tailored for each individual specific job.
The only way to demonstrate your belief in the value of your work is to walk away from clients who do not value it. If you don’t, then you are proving they are right every time. There aren’t that many people out there who do what you do and do it well.
David W. - I’d end up walking away from every project…and have no work!
Dear Gues: I hope you are joking. Either way, i call BS. The spec writer as the “overworked, underpaid martyr” persona is a disservice to the profession. I have walked away from plenty of projects with low-ball fees and continue to thrive. Especially in this economy. If specifiers are accepting work with lowball fees, then perhaps we need to discuss business management principles, marketing etc at the next SCIP meeting to help our profession get out of that rut!
Also, Gues, I turn away 1-3 jobs per week, so if you are looking for more work, please feel free to email me and i will refer people your way.
There may be an opportunity hidden in the “same as before” syndrome. When negotiating for the first job, inquire whether there might be follow-up projects. If the architect’s client has multiple work down the line, suggest that the architect pitch the client on developing a master spec for their ongoing projects. It is a good, strategic move for the architect, and an extra service you can profit from.