# SSMA vs. SFIA? **URL:** \ **Category:** Archive - Specifications Discussions #6\ **Created:** [July 23, 2015, 1:38am UTC](https://forum.4specs.com/t/ssma-vs-sfia/2908 "2015-07-23T01:38:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![David\_Axt](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex047/user_avatar/forum.4specs.com/david_axt/32/24_2.png) [@David\_Axt](https://forum.4specs.com/u/David_Axt)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 1:38am UTC](https://forum.4specs.com/t/ssma-vs-sfia/2908/1 "2015-07-23T01:38:18Z")
What is the difference between the Steel Stud Manufacturer’s Association (SSMA) and the Steel Framing Industry Alliance (SFIA)? I used to specify that steel stud manufacturers must be a member of SSMA. Now, I am wondering I should drop that requirement or include SFIA membership. ---
**Author:** ![mark\_gilligan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@mark\_gilligan](https://forum.4specs.com/u/mark_gilligan)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 4:06am UTC](https://forum.4specs.com/t/ssma-vs-sfia/2908/2 "2015-07-23T04:06:36Z")
I would not require manufacturers of metal studs be members of either organization. Rather specify the standards in the AISC standard. As I require SSMA took the leadership in defining standard notation for studs and in effect defining standard sizes that most manufacturers provide. ---
**Author:** ![mark\_gilligan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@mark\_gilligan](https://forum.4specs.com/u/mark_gilligan)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 6:53am UTC](https://forum.4specs.com/t/ssma-vs-sfia/2908/3 "2015-07-23T06:53:55Z")
Correction I meant the AISI Standard ---
**Author:** ![justatim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@justatim](https://forum.4specs.com/u/justatim)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 11:30am UTC](https://forum.4specs.com/t/ssma-vs-sfia/2908/4 "2015-07-23T11:30:30Z")
So far as I know, they are competing groups of manufacturers. They both, as well as the Certified Steel Stud Association (CSSA), have code-compliance certification programs. ---
**Author:** ![khercenberg](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex047/user_avatar/forum.4specs.com/khercenberg/32/104_2.png) [@khercenberg](https://forum.4specs.com/u/khercenberg)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 12:54pm UTC](https://forum.4specs.com/t/ssma-vs-sfia/2908/5 "2015-07-23T12:54:31Z")
Agreed. I no longer specify manufacturers or their organizations. It’s a commodity. Performance specify and be done with it. ---
**Author:** ![rlmat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eb9ed0/32.png) [@rlmat](https://forum.4specs.com/u/rlmat)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 2:21pm UTC](https://forum.4specs.com/t/ssma-vs-sfia/2908/6 "2015-07-23T14:21:46Z")
I’v totally agree with Ken. I just finished doing some research on steel stud manufacturer’s. As a result of my research, I’ve decided to make my steel stud spec a performance spec. One added comment: There is a lawsuit pending over the use of studs with equivalent coatings (EQ) or G40e. Clark-Dietrich is the manufacturer promoting the EQ coatings and is being sued by Cemco & Marino/Ware. The point is moot in Calif. for school construction as they (C-D) don’t have an ICC ESR Report for the EQ coating, which is required by the Division of the State Architect (DSA). ---
**Author:** ![Davemetzger](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex047/user_avatar/forum.4specs.com/davemetzger/32/389_2.png) [@Davemetzger](https://forum.4specs.com/u/Davemetzger)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 2:35pm UTC](https://forum.4specs.com/t/ssma-vs-sfia/2908/7 "2015-07-23T14:35:15Z")
Let’s not open that can of worms again. [http://discus.4specs.com/discus/messages/24/6768.html#POST39142](http://discus.4specs.com/discus/messages/24/6768.html#POST39142) ---
**Author:** ![guest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@guest](https://forum.4specs.com/u/guest)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 3:09pm UTC](https://forum.4specs.com/t/ssma-vs-sfia/2908/8 "2015-07-23T15:09:18Z")
Richard, Can you post some information regarding the suit? Any links to court records, etc.? ---
**Author:** ![rlmat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eb9ed0/32.png) [@rlmat](https://forum.4specs.com/u/rlmat)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 4:03pm UTC](https://forum.4specs.com/t/ssma-vs-sfia/2908/9 "2015-07-23T16:03:30Z")
Unfortunately, I don’t have any additional information. ---
**Author:** ![guest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@guest](https://forum.4specs.com/u/guest)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 4:59pm UTC](https://forum.4specs.com/t/ssma-vs-sfia/2908/10 "2015-07-23T16:59:45Z")
Fair enough Richard. I hear plenty of people talk about this lawsuit or that lawsuit when it comes to different products and until I see the actual records, I tend to take whatever is said with a gigantic grain of salt. Especially when the lawsuits or talk of lawsuits are coming from a competitor. FWIW, I couldn’t find anything substantial in a few quick google searches either. Looks like there have been a few suits being traded back and forth between these companies, but I wasn’t clear that any of these are the suit you referenced. ---
**Author:** ![khercenberg](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex047/user_avatar/forum.4specs.com/khercenberg/32/104_2.png) [@khercenberg](https://forum.4specs.com/u/khercenberg)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 5:57pm UTC](https://forum.4specs.com/t/ssma-vs-sfia/2908/11 "2015-07-23T17:57:59Z")
Guest, as far as I know they’re still in the discovery phase. Several people on this forum were apparently deposed though, to my knowledge, no one was approached as being an expert witness so the purpose of that exercise is unknown. You can probably contact either side and request an update. They seemed willing to discuss this last I checked. For those who did not know, the issue about the “equivalent” coating in that other thread only comes into play if you are allowing or specifying equivalent (dimpled) studs. As far as I know, all of the steel stud manufacturers still provide the standard thickness studs to meet specs that do not allow the use of EQ studs. Who knows, maybe Green Girt will come up with a stud solution for CFMF. ---
**Author:** ![louis\_medcalf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a8b319/32.png) [@louis\_medcalf](https://forum.4specs.com/u/louis_medcalf)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 8:28pm UTC](https://forum.4specs.com/t/ssma-vs-sfia/2908/12 "2015-07-27T20:28:59Z")
The SSMA “Product Technical Guide” has been through the ICC Evaluation Service and is ESR 3064P, which means stud sizes and spacing for both CFMF and non-structural studs based on the tables in the book meet IBC 2009 and 2012. The book is a free PDF download. They also have some handy standard details. ---
**Author:** ![ggoldstead](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex047/user_avatar/forum.4specs.com/ggoldstead/32/54_2.png) [@ggoldstead](https://forum.4specs.com/u/ggoldstead)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 9:17pm UTC](https://forum.4specs.com/t/ssma-vs-sfia/2908/13 "2015-07-27T21:17:50Z")
Louis, Please post a hyperlink to this free pdf download. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![jsandoz](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex047/user_avatar/forum.4specs.com/jsandoz/32/84_2.png) [@jsandoz](https://forum.4specs.com/u/jsandoz)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 12:47pm UTC](https://forum.4specs.com/t/ssma-vs-sfia/2908/14 "2015-07-28T12:47:05Z")
Gail, welcome to the 4specs Forum. In which part of the country are you located? ---
**Author:** ![ggoldstead](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex047/user_avatar/forum.4specs.com/ggoldstead/32/54_2.png) [@ggoldstead](https://forum.4specs.com/u/ggoldstead)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 12:53pm UTC](https://forum.4specs.com/t/ssma-vs-sfia/2908/15 "2015-07-28T12:53:45Z")
Hello James and all, I work in Chicago: Gail Ann J. Goldstead, AIA, CSI, LEED AP Senior Technical Architect + Specifications Writer Adrian Smith + Gordon Gill Architecture LLP 111 West Monroe Suite 2300 Chicago IL 60603 T 312 870 4202 ---
**Author:** ![khercenberg](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex047/user_avatar/forum.4specs.com/khercenberg/32/104_2.png) [@khercenberg](https://forum.4specs.com/u/khercenberg)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 12:59pm UTC](https://forum.4specs.com/t/ssma-vs-sfia/2908/16 "2015-07-28T12:59:55Z")
This is the SSMA technical page: [http://www.ssma.com/technical-library-pages-9.php](http://www.ssma.com/technical-library-pages-9.php) Here are some useful items on Steel Framing Alliance website: [http://www.steelframing.org/quicklinks.html](http://www.steelframing.org/quicklinks.html) Here is the technical page from CFSEI: [http://www.cfsei.org/technical-publications](http://www.cfsei.org/technical-publications) The generic information that these organizations provide can be very useful. I suggest caution when relying on their more proprietary content, especially regarding restricting your specs to their member companies. Use of equivalent (dimpled) studs using higher ksi steel with thinner gage or related equivalent coatings should be the decision of the individual Specifier. Best of luck. ---
**Author:** ![lazarcitec](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3bc359/32.png) [@lazarcitec](https://forum.4specs.com/u/lazarcitec)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 4:51am UTC](https://forum.4specs.com/t/ssma-vs-sfia/2908/17 "2015-07-29T04:51:16Z")
Ken, thanks for the links, very informative. Gail, welcome to the forum, say hello to my old (college) friend Jorge V Soler. ---
**Author:** ![ggoldstead](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex047/user_avatar/forum.4specs.com/ggoldstead/32/54_2.png) [@ggoldstead](https://forum.4specs.com/u/ggoldstead)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 12:45pm UTC](https://forum.4specs.com/t/ssma-vs-sfia/2908/18 "2015-07-29T12:45:25Z")
Jerome, Will do. ---
**Author:** ![sheldon\_wolfe](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex047/user_avatar/forum.4specs.com/sheldon_wolfe/32/197_2.png) [@sheldon\_wolfe](https://forum.4specs.com/u/sheldon_wolfe)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2016, 7:36pm UTC](https://forum.4specs.com/t/ssma-vs-sfia/2908/19 "2016-02-17T19:36:30Z")
There are several archived threads about metal framing, but I’ll stay with an active discussion. [ClarkDietrich Building Systems Awarded Record $49.5M in Product Disparagement Suit Against CSSA](http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/clarkdietrich-building-systems-awarded-record-495m-in-product-disparagement-suit-against-cssa-300192093.html) ---
**Author:** ![redseca2](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex047/user_avatar/forum.4specs.com/redseca2/32/50_2.png) [@redseca2](https://forum.4specs.com/u/redseca2)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2016, 9:18pm UTC](https://forum.4specs.com/t/ssma-vs-sfia/2908/20 "2016-02-17T21:18:43Z")
Hospitals in California also require an ICC ESR Report. [Next page](https://forum.4specs.com/t/ssma-vs-sfia/2908.md?page=2)