Brian
You are forgetting that your job is to respond to our needs.
I have to agree with Mark. One of our “needs” is not to have to spend time registering for access to websites and remembering a whole bunch of usernames and passwords, that are usually forgotten by the next time we have to login.
I also have to note, that with the down economy, manufacturers are reducing or eliminating their product rep staff and are trying to make up for it by requiring us to register to access their websites.
Well, Brian already does a great job responding to the industry, and I don’t mind so much if a Trade Association wants to know who I am if they are giving free access to their information, like BIA’s Technical Notes.
In the case of manufacturers, I don’t appreciate having to fill out forms just to access product info that should already be posted and accessible. Jumping through hoops for the honor of being permitted to specify their products? No way.
Too many manufacturers have opted to eliminate architectural support. If they think they can force us to do their jobs for them, it’s time for a change. I’m not here for their benefit. I believe in having good symbiotic relationships with proactive, knowledgeable reps, vendors, and technical support staff. I don’t want to reward bad behavior, or behaviour as Paul Gerber might say.
Well said Ken. I agree that Trade Associations are somewhat different than the manufacturers, who seem to be controlled by their marketing people.
I actually don’t mind putting in my name, email, and maybe phone, (only) into a form to get access to more in depth information. However, I do need to have unfettered access initially simply to know whether the product is worth digging into deeper. I understand manufacturers have a legitimate desire to know who has interest, and some of the good ones will actually have a rep contact me.
However, DON’T MAKE ME REGISTER WITH A USER NAME AND PASSWORD AS IF YOU’RE A D**N BANK! (I’m yelling in the hope that at least one or two manufacturers can hear me.) That is a completely pointless waste of my time. If a manufacturer wants to know about my project, let them call or email me. After all, I made the effort to find them, they can return the effort by contacting me.
I asked one company’s rep about the need to create an account. He said that it permits them to place a cookie on my computer so that I don’t need to register each time. Well, what if I use another computer next time (I work with two so I don’t have to sit and wait while a macro is running), or if I have privacy set on my computer to delete cookies?
Attention product manufacturers: When I work on a section where I want to look at the information on a particular product to see if I feel it is equal to other listed products, I am likely doing this same kind of search on a dozen manufacturer’s web sites each hour. I don’t have the time to enter my bio for every product I want to look at for a project. If it’s taking time from me, it’s costing me money. I don’t think I should be donating my precious time to save you some marketing dollars. That is not the way to treat me if you want me to feel positive about your company. Be warned! If I can’t have free and unfettered access, I’ll shop someplace else. And ponder this, you may discover you have an uphill battle to get approved as an equal after I decide not to put your name on the approved product list.
Well said Richard.
Bottom line for me is that I’m already spending too much time away from my daughter. Every minute I waste with this BS steals time that I value and can never get back. That makes it personal.
Marketing Departments: You won’t like me when I’m angry.
Remember, originally I asked for names. Can we create a “dark” list? (I hesitate to say “black list”, but…) It might get back to the manufacturers and it also might serve to warn each of us of future problems. Can we just share this factual information?
And that rep’s completely wrong about cookies - they can be placed by any site, registration or not.
What about websites that expect you to sort through their products by product name rather than a generic description? It seems to be most common on sites that interior designers might use. Or are we supposed to know that Acme Dog’s Choice carpet is 28 oz cut pile nylon?
I generally ignore “websites that expect you to sort through their products by product name rather than a generic description,” unless I have been informed of one of their products by name. It’s the manufacturer’s job to divulge what their products are. I name my children, but I also identify them as m/f persons. If I consider a pets to be “my children,” I also identify them as animals. Otherwise, what good would our national census serve?
I have suggested to many manufacturers that they provide a table, showing essential differences between their products. Coatings are a great example; even a generic description often isn’t enough to tell the difference between several similar products. Rigid insulation and gypboard also come to mind.
Again, one of the benefits of having access to good representation, something too many manufacturers don’t have.
Coatings are a big question mark, especially when looking at brand names. Resinous flooring is another. How am I supposed to know one trowel system vs another let alone trowel vs broadcast? Comparison charts within companies and between companies are really helpful. I specify around the folks who provide me with that information. Others I have to exclude since I don’t know enough about them to use them.
I sure don’t have time to register for websites just to find out that they don’t even have this level of information.
Lynn, I like your idea but I don’t know if it’s fair to Colin to post this on the 4specs.com website. Then again, maybe we can help him research companies that need his help in learning how to approach the design community.
Perhaps we can also identify those companies that go above-and-beyond in providing access to their information.
Colin, your thoughts please?
Ken, great idea…a “diamond” list and a “coal” list…with enough pressure from us and folks like us, those on the “coal” list could move to the “diamond” list…
Anyone run into the sites with a search box and you type in the product name that you know is correct and the search engine says “no results?” That is almost more infuriating than the registration request.
Oh yeah…even when you know a model number. I was talking to two reps yesterday about just that. They admitted that sometimes they can’t find things on their own website!
I do a monthly newsletter targeted to advertisers and building product manufacturers. I sometimes point users to the comments in the discussion forum. This topic is one I plan to use later this summer.
These newsletters go out to over 2,000 manufacturers. The focus is getting specified using the Internet - get found in the search engines, make it easy to use your website and provide the data the specifier needs to make informed decisions.
These newsletters go back over 10 years and most of them are still on target.
You can point reps to our Marketing 101 area on 4specs. I think of it as a university-level course in building product marketing.
http://www.4specs.com/marketing/
Colin, I send manufacturers there as often as I can. Thanks for providing that area!
Requiring registration is far overshadowed by manufacturers providing only PDF files of their specifications. PDF files can be overcome and made into text files, with considerable effort.
After that, the next irritant is noncompliance with CSI SectionFormat and basic specification writing principles (Clear, Correct, Complete and Concise) and practices (proper use of descriptive, reference standard, proprietary (open/closed) and performance (i.e., design/build) methods of specifying.
Colin, I’d put the quality of manufacturers’ specifications ahead of the registration issue.
New one to add: Needing manufacturers of epoxy resin laboratory countertops who could match one manufacturer’s color (charcoal) chosen by the Architect, I started checking. There aren’t many, but on the Prime Industries website, when I clicked on the “color” tab, the message came up that I was not authorized to see that page. So I did my typical message under the “contact us” tab - and left them in the specification, requiring submittals for a substitution for other manufacturers, of which Prime Industries was one.
This morning I received a phone call from Prime Industries, asking if I meant what I had written in the email (basically that I would use a competitor and that requiring registration was frustrating my attempt to get information). I said yes; the caller then asked if I remembered what I had written. I again said yes. Then he went into a tirade stating that they have always had problems with Flad - the call ended when I hung up after the words “you’re just an arrogant bi*ch” were uttered by the caller.
I removed them from the specification.