# Knox Box **URL:** \ **Category:** Archive - Specifications Discussions #5\ **Created:** [August 2, 2013, 6:36pm UTC](https://forum.4specs.com/t/knox-box/2340 "2013-08-02T18:36:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![George\_Everding](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex047/user_avatar/forum.4specs.com/george_everding/32/20_2.png) [@George\_Everding](https://forum.4specs.com/u/George_Everding)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 6:36pm UTC](https://forum.4specs.com/t/knox-box/2340/1 "2013-08-02T18:36:09Z")
I know there are other threads on this topic, but I thought I would get an update on the pulse of the specification community: Knox boxes - in 087100, in a separate section, or in a miscellaneous equipment section? What’s your preference, current practice, experience? Thanks, ---
**Author:** ![jerry\_orland](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/4da419/32.png) [@jerry\_orland](https://forum.4specs.com/u/jerry_orland)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 6:44pm UTC](https://forum.4specs.com/t/knox-box/2340/2 "2013-08-02T18:44:29Z")
I use Div 10. either 10 4400 or 10 80 00 ---
**Author:** ![david\_j\_wyatt\_cdt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@david\_j\_wyatt\_cdt](https://forum.4specs.com/u/david_j_wyatt_cdt)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 6:46pm UTC](https://forum.4specs.com/t/knox-box/2340/3 "2013-08-02T18:46:07Z")
George, I had to look myself, because I have been seeing them in 08 7100 lately and that doesn’t seem like a perfect fit. MasterFormat has a classification 10 41 16 - Emergency Key Cabinets under Manufactured Exterior Specialties. That seems more appropriate. Moving forward, I will be careful not to “dis” products on this forum. I was the one who used the term “clunky” in a previous post. ---
**Author:** ![lynn\_javoroski](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex047/user_avatar/forum.4specs.com/lynn_javoroski/32/188_2.png) [@lynn\_javoroski](https://forum.4specs.com/u/lynn_javoroski)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 6:48pm UTC](https://forum.4specs.com/t/knox-box/2340/4 "2013-08-02T18:48:54Z")
Emergency Key Cabinet - 10 4116, because it’s not hardware and is an emergency specialty. ---
**Author:** ![sheldon\_wolfe](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex047/user_avatar/forum.4specs.com/sheldon_wolfe/32/197_2.png) [@sheldon\_wolfe](https://forum.4specs.com/u/sheldon_wolfe)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 6:58pm UTC](https://forum.4specs.com/t/knox-box/2340/5 "2013-08-02T18:58:19Z")
I have used 08-7913 - Key Storage Equipment, but 10-4116 looks better. ---
**Author:** ![wilsonconsulting](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex047/user_avatar/forum.4specs.com/wilsonconsulting/32/128_2.png) [@wilsonconsulting](https://forum.4specs.com/u/wilsonconsulting)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 8:46pm UTC](https://forum.4specs.com/t/knox-box/2340/6 "2013-08-02T20:46:47Z")
I have used Div 08 & Div 10, depending on client preference (I’m an out-house specifier). Because MasterSpec includes them in 087100, I prefer to leave them there. If they get supplied as part of door hardware, that seems like a sufficiently logical location. ---
**Author:** ![lynn\_javoroski](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex047/user_avatar/forum.4specs.com/lynn_javoroski/32/188_2.png) [@lynn\_javoroski](https://forum.4specs.com/u/lynn_javoroski)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 8:58pm UTC](https://forum.4specs.com/t/knox-box/2340/7 "2013-08-02T20:58:34Z")
MasterSpec is not always logical or infallible. I prefer to place something like this where it will be noticed by the GC or CM and not buried in a somewhat related section. I’m not certain about the work results, but I think the hardware sub-contractor is not the most logical supplier. ---
**Author:** ![sheldon\_wolfe](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex047/user_avatar/forum.4specs.com/sheldon_wolfe/32/197_2.png) [@sheldon\_wolfe](https://forum.4specs.com/u/sheldon_wolfe)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 9:02pm UTC](https://forum.4specs.com/t/knox-box/2340/8 "2013-08-02T21:02:22Z")
I hate Knox boxes in the outhouse. Paper should be available without a key. ---
**Author:** ![lynn\_javoroski](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex047/user_avatar/forum.4specs.com/lynn_javoroski/32/188_2.png) [@lynn\_javoroski](https://forum.4specs.com/u/lynn_javoroski)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 9:05pm UTC](https://forum.4specs.com/t/knox-box/2340/9 "2013-08-02T21:05:29Z")
At least the whole thing isn’t coin-operated! ---
**Author:** ![liz\_osullivan](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex047/user_avatar/forum.4specs.com/liz_osullivan/32/41_2.png) [@liz\_osullivan](https://forum.4specs.com/u/liz_osullivan)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 9:42pm UTC](https://forum.4specs.com/t/knox-box/2340/10 "2013-08-02T21:42:25Z")
I put it in Division 10. ---
**Author:** ![sheldon\_wolfe](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex047/user_avatar/forum.4specs.com/sheldon_wolfe/32/197_2.png) [@sheldon\_wolfe](https://forum.4specs.com/u/sheldon_wolfe)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2013, 12:17am UTC](https://forum.4specs.com/t/knox-box/2340/11 "2013-08-03T00:17:53Z")
The paper? As a toilet accessory? ---
**Author:** ![liz\_osullivan](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex047/user_avatar/forum.4specs.com/liz_osullivan/32/41_2.png) [@liz\_osullivan](https://forum.4specs.com/u/liz_osullivan)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2013, 2:04am UTC](https://forum.4specs.com/t/knox-box/2340/12 "2013-08-03T02:04:31Z")
The paper goes in Division 01, under Owner-Furnished Items. ---
**Author:** ![jpjordan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/67e7ee/32.png) [@jpjordan](https://forum.4specs.com/u/jpjordan)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2013, 4:02pm UTC](https://forum.4specs.com/t/knox-box/2340/13 "2013-08-03T16:02:41Z")
There are a couple of other people making these things, and Knox itself makes type of key boxes than those to be used by particular local fire departments. One of the problems I have had is finding out exactly what Owners want as well as what may be required by local authorities having jurisdiction. I can see an instance where there are two emergency key boxes, one for the fire department and one for other first responders. ---
**Author:** ![bunzick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a587f6/32.png) [@bunzick](https://forum.4specs.com/u/bunzick)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2013, 6:59pm UTC](https://forum.4specs.com/t/knox-box/2340/14 "2013-08-03T18:59:43Z")
Don’t forget that these are sometimes used by the US Postal Service to get into a building when mail boxes are inside. So there could be several such boxes, and they may not all be in the same spot. ---
**Author:** ![paulgerber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3ab097/32.png) [@paulgerber](https://forum.4specs.com/u/paulgerber)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 2:42pm UTC](https://forum.4specs.com/t/knox-box/2340/15 "2013-08-09T14:42:24Z")
I’m just glad someone translated “Knox box” for me because my Rosetta Stone for American to Canadian was drawing a blank and trying to place anything in 087100 with a name like that was making my head hurt briefly. Here I thought there was some new, fantastic piece of door hardware I hadn’t heard anything about though deliberate obfuscation within the Canadian marketplace!! ---
**Author:** ![specman](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex047/user_avatar/forum.4specs.com/specman/32/222_2.png) [@specman](https://forum.4specs.com/u/specman)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 2:56pm UTC](https://forum.4specs.com/t/knox-box/2340/16 "2013-08-09T14:56:45Z")
Paul: My translator is working just fine: Knox Box = Knox Box, eh. ---
**Author:** ![paulgerber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3ab097/32.png) [@paulgerber](https://forum.4specs.com/u/paulgerber)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 3:06pm UTC](https://forum.4specs.com/t/knox-box/2340/17 "2013-08-09T15:06:37Z")
Maybe I need to check for an update eh? Thanks for the smile! ---
**Author:** ![George\_Everding](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex047/user_avatar/forum.4specs.com/george_everding/32/20_2.png) [@George\_Everding](https://forum.4specs.com/u/George_Everding)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 9:14pm UTC](https://forum.4specs.com/t/knox-box/2340/18 "2013-08-09T21:14:41Z")
Knox Box is to Emergency Key Cabinet as Kleenex is to Facial Tissue. In my specifier days, I did not include them in 08710 because of the additional requirements from the fire department - it took a special form from the Owner to get them ordered and onsite, if I remember. So they would go in a special Division 13 section (remember the old Division 13 as a catch all?) or in 10999, another catch all. In my current role, I am somewhat at the mercy of my architect-clients, and several of their master specs include Knox Boxes in 08 71 00. I’m not totally comfortable with that, because it really has nothing to do with the keying system I am specifying, unlike key control cabinets, which have everything to do with my section because they are an important part of keying. Despite being more appropriate, both 08 7913 - Key Storage Equipment and 10 4116 Emergency Key Cabinet seem way too narrow scope for most projects. Thanks for the opinions - for the time being I guess I am resigned to occassionally including them in my hardware section. ---
**Author:** ![bunzick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a587f6/32.png) [@bunzick](https://forum.4specs.com/u/bunzick)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2013, 5:42pm UTC](https://forum.4specs.com/t/knox-box/2340/19 "2013-08-10T17:42:04Z")
Plans cabinets (which store building floor plans at the fire command center) are often required by fire departments, which would fit nicely in a spec that includes emergency key cabinets. ---
**Author:** ![ann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/76d3ee/32.png) [@ann](https://forum.4specs.com/u/ann)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 5:40pm UTC](https://forum.4specs.com/t/knox-box/2340/20 "2013-08-12T17:40:56Z")
I’m late to the discussion - always - but I put the key box in Division 10.