I once had a PM in one of the firms I worked for tell me that “nothing made him happier than when an Owner told us what roofing system to use”
The caveat to this is to make sure you write the CYA letter that you are specifiying the product at the request of the Owner in lieu of the system you had proposed.
It’s unfortunate that the presumed high quality, eco-friendly products available in Europe (European TPOs) for use in PRMA assemblies are not available in the US. As such, we are forced to use PVC or petroleum based products to get the longevity that is needed. This is a trade-off in sustainability, as longevity is a critical factor in keeping products out of our landfills. The hard part is convincing developers and building owners that it’s worthwhile putting down a roofing system that will last 60 years instead of a roofing membrane that will last 10, especially if the project is for a speculative investor.
Of course as long as we find that ‘conventional roofing’ systems are cheaper than PRMA and vegetated alternatives, roofing membranes will continue to short-lived. As to who to depend on for information, I’m in favor of relying on those people who have built trust. If you find you can trust an installer or supplier more than your rep, you need to go with it. Some of us lucky people have found that handful of ‘golden reps’ who will walk away from a project if their product just isn’t right. The ones who bug me are those who tell me to change our design to suit their product. (Yep, just had that conversation again a little while ago). I still call people who rep products outside of my territory when I have questions because I know I can trust them to give me accurate information. I also rely on Installers, vendors, consultants, and this forum.
multiple things here..
- I have gotten a LEED innovation credit for a black roof in Montana. Carlisle has the data to show that in some climates the black roof is more effective, and the climate line runs about at the California/Oregon border, across to New York City. In those area, you really need to do the calculations.
- As for a long-lived roof: every membrane after about 10 years is dependent on good maintenance more than a good membrane. You want a 200 year roof? Use Lead. See Elsia.org.uk for lead marketing information.
In most public work I’ve done, the owner can specify what roof membrane they want and hold the spec based on the “maintenance capabilities of their staff”. Never had a problem, and I’ve never had Durolast try to break the spec (or Garland, for that matter). Of course if you have a weenie for an owner, doesn’t matter what the spec says…
“weenie”.. is that a technical term?
At Rice University, “weenie” is (or was) student slang for (v) studying very intensely, “He weenies for every exam.”; and (n) a person who studies (one who “weenies”), “That weenie breaks the curve on every exam.”
Well are they being “weenatious” or “weenitious”?
in the Pacific Northwest, a “weenie” is someone who folds under pressure…no matter how slight the pressure.
should have consulted the US slang dictionary, I guess – weenies are never “atious” or “itious” about anything.
Anne;
In the middle atlantic a “weenie” is also someone who folds easily (or doesn’t even standup). There are other definitions. I was jsut having fun asking about the “technical term.”
Hi, I have seen folks coming onto my blogs off here and just wanted to reiterate what I have posted on www.schoolroofingscam.blogspot.com is the case. So many people have sent me documentation since 1997, the sixth year into watching my bosses in bed with Tremco and finding out they were taking kickbacks for all kinds of illegally-sole sourced contracts at the Univ. of California San Francisco Facilities Dept…that I kept getting calls for help from at least 24 states and over 200 people in 1999 when I was fired for going to the FBI that I had to post them to stop paying for mailing and faxing!!!
There is a whole lot more to be posted and I will get to them after a particular event in August, 2013.
There is a LOT happening…
Let me say this to the specifiers and architects here: I am an architect trained by Matt Hitlin, former head of the IRWCA (International Roofing and Waterproofing Consultants’ Association), now part of the RCI. I was told by a recent President of the RCI that “Matt wrote the Bible of Roofing.” I don’t think Matt is still alive, he taught me in the early 1980’s for two years as a roof consultant for a couple of years on an extremely complex 5 acre plan size, 11 stories at one end two buildings around an acre atrium corporate headquarters building that I was in charge of 1/4 of (the more difficult detailing and design areas). It was built into a hillside for a southern mother company of all the power companies in the southeast. I was a young kid, recently out of architecture school at Georgia Tech. Matt told me in the very early 2000’s I think it was that he started the IRWCA to fight Tremco, Garland and Hickman…
Essentially, the scam companies reuse other’s products with or without their permission, mark the products up 6-8 times, and in some cases, “short” the asphalt between the plies so that the roofs get done before year 10.
This happens usually schools, unwatched funding where they can easily dupe or pay off school boards along with duplicitous business officers and facilities directors and staff…but also happened at an IBM Chip-Making Plant in the Silicone Valley where the Roof Consultant called in later couldn’t believe what he saw. The Tremco roof had been shorted, water got in and got into the clean rooms. Tremco came back and redid the roof, repaired it…and the same thing happened again.
About $162 million later in losses and two new clean rooms, the facilities guys threw the Tremco reps off the roof and used the roof consultant (duh!) and got a roof that worked.
Contractors in the San Francisco Bay Area and Tremco Sales Reps ordered the shorting. You should have heard former estimators and Tremco field reps, angry, telling me about it…
Architects in general in California and across the US and Canada are C-L-U-E-L-E-S-S and are going along to get along. But these were ruled “criminal acts” in my case and so yelled at the UCSF attorneys by the California Supreme Court Justices in my case at an oral hearing in 2004 - the sole-sourcing was ruled criminal!!! - with the UCSF specs I turned into the FBI in 1997 (Tremco, although Garland or Hickman would have been as well)…and nothing got done because of dirty well-known California politicians threatening me, one my life, and another as recent as the Fall of 2012…a prominent State Senator & former San Francisco School Board President.
So you have to understand - any architect or engineer doing so is aiding and abetting criminal activities. Got it?
It won’t be long until those involved may be charged with it, and I would not want to be in their shores. Forewarned is forearmed.
Anytime you see one of these specs, and if someone is trying to force you to use them, call me, will you? Email me at campbellarchitec@aol.com and I will give you my number.
There is a good way to help you…and everyone in California, every state and province too (yes, I get calls from Canada and lots of hits from the UK and many other countries looking up “Garland Scam” etc…)…word is out.
There’s a lot more to say…
I wanted to add something. Here is a typical listing of what I see coming onto my blogs from the UK - many other countries, too…just so you can see how widespread the scam is…usually it’s Garland, but this time, it’s Tremco and Hickman and look at the search terms they use on Google!
I have taken out who it was but left on the country and date and time…
XXXXXXX Technologies Ltd (87.115.47.143) [Label IP Address] 2 returning visits
United Kingdom FlagUnited Kingdom
www.google.co.uk tremco roofing litigation #1
1 Aug 20:10:14
Roofing Scam Targeting Schools and Public Work
www.google.co.uk tremco litigation #2
5 Aug 09:17:24
Roofing Scam Targeting Schools and Public Work
5 Aug 09:17:47
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGPNJxK1ZRQ&list=UUWUx5f1-40oR0y7QBNcbqmw&index=8&feature=plcp (Exit Link)
www.google.co.uk hickman roofing litigation #2
5 Aug 09:33:33
Roofing Scam Targeting Schools and Public Work: W. P. Hickman Goes Belly-Up - as of October 2, 2008
5 Aug 09:36:37
www.roofingscam.blogspot.com/ (Exit Link)
www.google.co.uk hickman roofing litigation #2
5 Aug 09:37:46
Roofing Scam Targeting Schools and Public Work: W. P. Hickman Goes Belly-Up - as of October 2, 2008
5 Aug 09:38:00
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEKVSrPui08&list=UUWUx5f1-40oR0y7QBNcbqmw&index=10&feature=plcp (Exit Link)
www.google.co.uk tremco litigation #2
6 Aug 15:50:51
Roofing Scam Targeting Schools and Public Work
And postings from Canada - usually from Ontario and Nova Scotia, but this time, British Columbia!
XXXXXXXXX Media (74.121.32.162) [Label IP Address] 3 returning visits
Canada FlagVancouver, British Columbia, Canada
(No referring link)
6 Aug 09:28:31
Roofing Scam Targeting Schools and Public Work
schoolroofingscam.blogspot.ca/
6 Aug 09:31:16
Roofing Scam Targeting Schools and Public Work: What a Shame!
6 Aug 09:31:28
www.kitsapsun.com/news/2013/jul/12/north-kitsap-school-board-approves-roofing/#ixzz2ZGxAOd1M (Exit Link)
Since Janet Campbell shared information regarding Tremco, below is the latest from NRCA:
Friends:
No pubnlic administration has the right to “Exclude” competition in favor of a “Preferred Vendor”. That is law in all 50 states, territories, provinces, of Canada.
You may not spend public money as private money, or for your “convenience”.
The Tremco, Garland Scam is widely known. You’ve already mentioned Ms. Campbell’s very informative website, backed by public record.
You may not write an unnecessarily restrictive specification favoring only ONE manufacturer as they have you believe.
Our schools are paying Garland, and Tremco reps a 25% Commission, and a purchasing cooperative around 4%. IMMEDIATELY, your tax dollar just turned into 71 cents, with nothing to show for it.
You will notice that honorable manufacturers like Firestone, GAF, Carlisle Syntec, and Barrett, are NEVER mentioned in investigative reports. that’s because they compete for business, not buy it.
Note: Retired 2003 I do not solicit, nor accept compensation or personal advancement of any kind.
I use my time to inform taxpayers.
Roof Consultant’s Institute has a very firm stance against purchasing cooperatives, as I do.
The 'which roof is better" argument is meaningless to me, as all major manufacturers offer top flight systems at FAIR pricing. All public purchases must provide both “Servicability”, and “Value” to the taxpayers.
The predatory sales model of Tremco and Garland claim they can buy anything they WANT. False. By that reasoning, all school board members could drive Mercedes 600’s because they “Want” them.
The “Maintenance Agreement” scam goes along with all this. The salesman gets 50% if you can believe that.
We passed SB 630 in Oklahoma which calls for fair competition of all trades.
I research and present copious amounts data here, as Ms. Campbell does. She is a taxpayer champion in my view, and you should be grateful that someone cares.
If you actually want to learn about public roofing procurement, visit me here:
I can defend this position against anyone because the premise is not debatable.
Taxpayers, Schools, and our Children matter, not “Sole Source” contracts that are designed only to siphon off your tax dollars.
I spent almost 40 years of my life in the commercial roofing discipline at the highest level. Now paralyzed by a severe neurological trauma (hemorrhagic stroke), I share this knowledge with you as a civic responsibility.
Say NO to Tremco, Garland, and all Purchasing Cooperatives. Insist upon 4 major manufacturers with the assets to back up their warranties.
Your tax dollars do not belong in the pocket of a “Salesman”, but much reach their intended purpose.
“In this world everything changes except good deeds and bad deeds; they follow you as the shadow follows the body” (unknown)
Perhaps this is the day I’ve helped someone.
Respect.
Robert R. 'Ron" Solomon
Director, Roof Consultant’s Alliance (3,600)
Public Procurement Analyst
CCC 1325620
RobertRSolomon@aol.com