# Bituminous coatings in grouted frames **URL:** \ **Category:** Archive - Product Discussions #6\ **Created:** [May 11, 2020, 9:35pm UTC](https://forum.4specs.com/t/bituminous-coatings-in-grouted-frames/3682 "2020-05-11T21:35:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![presbspec](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e95f7d/32.png) [@presbspec](https://forum.4specs.com/u/presbspec)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2020, 9:35pm UTC](https://forum.4specs.com/t/bituminous-coatings-in-grouted-frames/3682/1 "2020-05-11T21:35:56Z")
Have an architect questioning whether we need to include the bituminous coating in grouted frames. appears he is getting push back from some contractors. I understand the reason for this, and have stated it many times. Do any of you have some more definitive sources that may carry more weight than the word of this “lowly spec writer”? ---
**Author:** ![mchavez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bc79bd/32.png) [@mchavez](https://forum.4specs.com/u/mchavez)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2020, 10:13pm UTC](https://forum.4specs.com/t/bituminous-coatings-in-grouted-frames/3682/2 "2020-05-11T22:13:51Z")
the coating is not (per my knowledge) part of the fire testing of the door, doesn’t do much good and i have removed it for the past 10 years or so along with “grouting the frames solid”…but that is just my opinion. have you asked the SDI? ---
**Author:** ![rjray](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6de8d8/32.png) [@rjray](https://forum.4specs.com/u/rjray)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 12:29am UTC](https://forum.4specs.com/t/bituminous-coatings-in-grouted-frames/3682/3 "2020-05-12T00:29:15Z")
Margaret, Perhaps the question is why are you grouting hollow metal frames? What purpose do you think it serves? It is not required for any fire-rated assemble. It is not required for any structural reasons. The Steel Door Institute does not recommend grouting any hollow metal frames including galvanized steel frames. The bituminous coating will not eliminate rusting of galvanized steel framed. My experience is that is s specified based on tradition and nothing more. If your concern is thermal, consider a different frame material or use a thermally broken hollow metal frame with thermal anchors and insulating the throat with something that will not trap water, like mineral wool insulation. ---
**Author:** ![brian\_payne](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex047/user_avatar/forum.4specs.com/brian_payne/32/356_2.png) [@brian\_payne](https://forum.4specs.com/u/brian_payne)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 12:42am UTC](https://forum.4specs.com/t/bituminous-coatings-in-grouted-frames/3682/4 "2020-05-12T00:42:52Z")
What Ronald said! x10 Ditto. Amen! ---
**Author:** ![presbspec](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e95f7d/32.png) [@presbspec](https://forum.4specs.com/u/presbspec)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 3:04am UTC](https://forum.4specs.com/t/bituminous-coatings-in-grouted-frames/3682/5 "2020-05-12T03:04:52Z")
OK Guys! I stand corrected ---
**Author:** ![redseca2](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex047/user_avatar/forum.4specs.com/redseca2/32/50_2.png) [@redseca2](https://forum.4specs.com/u/redseca2)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 7:12pm UTC](https://forum.4specs.com/t/bituminous-coatings-in-grouted-frames/3682/6 "2020-05-12T19:12:47Z")
Unfortunately, I have experienced grout filled frames still being a design requirement in certain applications for clients like Customs and Border Protection. ---
**Author:** ![guest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@guest](https://forum.4specs.com/u/guest)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2020, 3:05pm UTC](https://forum.4specs.com/t/bituminous-coatings-in-grouted-frames/3682/7 "2020-05-13T15:05:44Z")
Just to top off the already good advice, here is what the SDI says: [https://www.steeldoor.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/risks-of-grouting-frames.pdf](https://www.steeldoor.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/risks-of-grouting-frames.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![khercenberg](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex047/user_avatar/forum.4specs.com/khercenberg/32/104_2.png) [@khercenberg](https://forum.4specs.com/u/khercenberg)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2020, 4:09pm UTC](https://forum.4specs.com/t/bituminous-coatings-in-grouted-frames/3682/8 "2020-05-13T16:09:51Z")
Thanks Guest. So reading into this my guess is that bituminous coatings were introduced to offset antifreeze agents in the grout. Interesting way to solve a problem that could have been fixed by following the standards. Of course this practice probably goes back to the 1950’s or earlier so who knows what standards said back then. ---
**Author:** ![ed\_storer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee59a6/32.png) [@ed\_storer](https://forum.4specs.com/u/ed_storer)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2020, 11:01pm UTC](https://forum.4specs.com/t/bituminous-coatings-in-grouted-frames/3682/9 "2020-07-12T23:01:37Z")
In my experience, the only valid reason for grouting of frames is for high security doors in masonry or concrete openings. Use of gypsum products for grouting solves no problems and can cause problems if the grout is over-watered - i.e. rust through. I had a prison project once where cementitious grout was specified for the frames. The subcontractor chose to save money by using (illegal) beach sand in the grout. The salt component of the sand caused all sorts of corrosion.